Discussing Discussion
A Continuation of Curtisđ and Heatherâsđ Conversation from Last Monthâs Issue on Debate
By: Curtis Kelly & Heather Kretschmer
Heather: In our November issue we took a deep dive into debate. And this month, weâre focusing on a related speaking skill, one that is near and dear to your heart, Curtis.Â
Curtis: Yes! Discussion is the one speaking area that has always fascinated me. It has been both a ghost ship for meâhard to make happen in the Japanese college classroomâand the siren on the rocks, drawing me in. Something happens in discussion that I canât quite place my finger on, but it intrigues me. Maybe it is that two frontal lobes are exploring and discovering in collaboration. And more. It involves the difficult task of integrating new ideas into what we already know, which often means we must discard some of those existing beliefs. It is the reshaping of our mental models, something that is not always done gently. And so, it turns abstract, impersonal information into something concrete and meaningful. I learned this from my studies in Adult Education. Malcolm Knowles taught us that to learn, adults need to discuss. It helps them integrate the new ideas into their existing ideas, their view of the world, their life in general. In the process, they often teach each other as well. As Knowles wrote:
Adults are a learning resource for their peersÂ
Adult learners have more diverse individual experiences than child learners. Theyâve been around longer to accumulate those experiences, and they have more experiences to build on.
The adult learners themselves are a resource for learning. Adult learning should emphasize learning techniques that make use of the experience of learners, with group discussions, peer-to-peer collaboration, and problem-solving activities, instead of transmitting information one way, from the teacher to the students. (Naji, 2022)
Heather: Yes, I often integrate peer-to-peer collaboration and problem-solving tasks into small group discussions. But let’s touch on the idea of information transfer for a moment. When Naji mentions âtransmitting information one way,â it reminds me of Paulo Freireâs metaphor of the banking model of education in which students are merely receptacles for receiving knowledge from teachers. According to Freire, this one-way transmission of knowledge doesnât help students develop their critical thinking skills (link). And research indicates that fewer students benefit when instructors heavily rely on the traditional lecture format, a time-honored one-way transmission of information (link). Unfortunately, students themselves believe listening to their instructor lecture is an effective learning strategy (link).
Now, Iâm not arguing that teachers should stop lecturing, but we should keep these input phases short, and we can encourage students to actively engage with course content. A discussion is a great way to do that. And not just with adult learners. K-12 school teachers can also carefully scaffold discussions with children and teenagers (link and link).
Curtis: Yes, and parents can have learning-centered discussions with their children too. Just yesterday, I had such an experience with my high-school-aged daughter. She read a story about a Bengali immigrant to America titled, âHell and Heaven.â The title with the mixed up order of this common phrase was something the Bengali mother said in a fit of emotion. This poor woman suffered through a loveless arranged marriage and, being an honorable Bengali, she could never leave her husband or confess her love for another man she met later. She suffered greatly and tottered on the brink of suicide. My daughter and I discussed all this and then we realized that her steadfast devotion to her family, even without her love being returned, eventually helped her make peace with her life.
Then, simultaneously, my daughter and I realized the deeper meaning of the mixed-up title. This story was about how a woman went from her own Hell to a kind of Heaven, a route laid out for her by an ancient moral code. It is what might happen to any of us who adhere to a strong moral line, even if burdensome, experiencing Hell at first, but eventually reaching a gentle Heaven later. I doubt either of us would have arrived at that deeper understanding of the story on our own, but discussing it led to discovery. Our two frontal lobes had connected and created a new understanding.Â
Heather: Your experience with your daughter really illustrates how valuable discussion is. Isnât it great when our students have those same kinds of Aha! moments when discussing something with each other?
Unfortunately, a classroom discussion, whether done in pairs, a small group, or the whole class, can fall flat quickly or remain very superficial and boring if the teacher doesnât put enough forethought into setting up, monitoring, and debriefing the discussion activity. Luckily, we can set up our classroom discussions in many different ways, as our authors demonstrate in this Think Tank issue.
Curtis: For sure. One of my doctoral professors often set up discussions in class, but he had one rule: âNo personal war stories.â He meant that people who donât know each other often try to give themselves identity and status by talking about their work achievements, rather than the topic at hand. The key here is âpeople who donât know each other.â The group of doctoral students I was with was already tight, even before the first class (we set up a casino boat trip in Ft. Lauderdale Harbor to bond beforehand), and more than one professor commented on how our class discussion seemed richer. So that is a key factor in setting up classroom discussion: it helps if the group members know each other. Another rule I have often seen used is to âMake sure everyone has a chance to speak.â Naturally, that makes sense, but I wonder if it implies that âeveryone must speakâ as well. Iâm not sure I like that idea. Or that some teachers might be assessing the discussants on âhow much they contribute.â What do you think, Heather?
Heather: I personally wouldnât assess students according to how much they contribute and, if I were forced to do so in a particular teaching context, I would give students different options for making their contribution. For example, I would allow them to communicate their thoughts in writing via an online chat or discussion forum.Â
I definitely agree with you that it helps when discussants know each other well, and I would even go a step further and argue that trust is a key factor. In my opinion, students need to trust one another and their teacher before they start discussing complex topics. Thatâs why I weave community building activities into my courses. When students feel a sense of community and belonging, they are more likely to share ideas and take risks during a discussion. Itâs also helpful to have shared norms for classroom discussions and to draw studentsâ attention to those norms before beginning discussions (link). Finally, giving students time to think about the topic before discussing it increases the likelihood that all students participate in the discussion. A think-pair-share task is a highly effective way to do this (link). In this simple activity, students first think about the topic and then share their thoughts with a partner.
Curtis: Heather, these are some great ways of exploring and discovering with two frontal lobes. Ways of exploring the social stuffing of conversation and mulling over the big ideas on how the world works.
Curtis Kelly (EdD) is a retired professor with over forty years experience in Japanese universities. He loves writing textbooks and making activities that help his life mission: âto relieve the suffering of the classroom.â
Heather Kretschmer teaches English at the University of Göttingen in Germany.